soldiergrrrl: (Everybody's a critic)
[personal profile] soldiergrrrl
You know the one...the one I'm going to lose my head over and probably some friends, because I'm going to come across as hateful and intolerant I'm sure.

ETA:  Here's a link to SCA Today:  http://www.scatoday.net/node/21565#comments

Personally, I like having a King and a Queen on the throne.  There's a reason for this, and I'll try and explain as best I can, although I'm pretty sure I'm going to fuck it up.

Okay, let me start at the beginning, or at least at the beginning in my head.

Let's start with peerages.  Yes, there are more female peers than male peers, at least when it comes to the Laurel and the Pelican, but when it comes to the sticking point, the peerage that appears to have the most "power" is the Chiv and the Chiv is overwhelmingly men. 

In Ansteorra, we have had four women elevated to the Chiv, and out of those four, three were elevated after they'd already sat on the throne at least once. 

So, with that being said, although I would love for anyone to fight for the love of their lives, and to place their most beloved partner on the throne, I'm also deeply uneasy about meddling with the ONE truly powerful position for women in the SCA, and anyone who thinks people won't game the system for "power" are mistaken, I think.  Humans are good at a lot of things, and gaming systems is WAY up there on things we're not only good at, but things we LOVE to do.  Humans are hard-wired to do it, I swear. 

Bah.  I'm getting this all jumbled up. 

Suffice to say that I am uneasy about changing the rules because I think it will be abused, and while I'm sure there are some hot women sticks out there, I think the chances of a woman putting another woman on the throne are vanishingly small, and that by removing the "opposite gender" clause, we take away a position of influence for a woman.  Those positions are few and far between for women in the SCA as it is.

Agh.  I'll probably end up editing this a million times since it's all borked up.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonel.livejournal.com
A link to the rule or proposed change would be nice for those of us who are aware of the SCA but are not versed in the politics.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com
Ah. Okay...hang on a minute here...Lemme go find it.

AH! http://www.scatoday.net/node/21565#comments

Date: 2011-10-24 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonel.livejournal.com
Ok I understand why this is a messy issue. In theory it would have minimal effect. In practice I think it would probably lead to several of the abuses that you foresee.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tashabear.livejournal.com
Thus far, the rule has been that a male and female pair are the only ones eligible to contend in Crown Tournament to become king and queen. Generally, the man fights in honor of the woman, but occasionally, a woman will fight in honor of a man. (Only once has a woman actually won and become Queen by Right of Arms.) There may not, under the current rules, be a male-male or female-female pairing.

There is a proposal before our Board of Directors (BoD) to eliminate this rule and give same-sex pairings the right to enter Crown. As you can imagine, this is met with no little controversy, especially since the original petition was worded in such a way that it essentially said "if you aren't in favor of this you are a raging homophobe and probably kick kittens and puppies." There are those who are against the proposal, like Helene, simply because they want a biological woman on the throne, or because a king and queen is part of their medieval fantasy, or whatever reason, and yet they feel that they can't speak out because they don't want to be labeled homophobic.

I have a few members of my household who are gay. I was bridesmaid at my apprentice sister's wedding when she married her girlfriend, and she has told me that she doesn't agree with the proposal. It's a very fraught issue.

Date: 2011-10-27 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deafelis.livejournal.com
I thought there were a few Queens who won by Right of Arms. I can only think of one here in Ansteorra, but I thought another kingdom to the east of us somewhere also had one. {is confused}

Date: 2011-10-27 12:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tashabear.livejournal.com
Don't think so. I think it was just that one woman in Ansteorra. I can check when I get home.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-eliz.livejournal.com

You're not alone on this one, sweetie. I'm not comfortable with it either.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silk-noir.livejournal.com
Honey?

I am totally on your side in this.

Date: 2011-10-24 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kass-rants.livejournal.com
For what it's worth, I totally understand what you're saying and I'd never considered that angle at all.

Date: 2011-10-24 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaphod-groupie.livejournal.com
Ugh. I kinda hate that the liberty versus safety/security problem has had to intrude into my SCA life, but here it is.

I don't think you're awful, your ideas and views are just as valid and worthy of consideration as any other level-headed person's, honey. Love you.

Date: 2011-10-24 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com
I suspect it is more likely to be a man fighting for another man (In Caid, one of our most well-respected Chiv is a legally married gay man. While I understand your concern, I think the better route to allow women more opportunities within the SCA would be to combat it head-on, rather than through using something not specifically intended for that.

IMO, if you are fighting for Crown, you should be allowed to fight for whomever you please.

Date: 2011-10-24 09:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] femkederoas.livejournal.com
This is actually one of the factors that has led me to walk away from the SCA.

Part of it is that I get seriously annoyed by the insistence of certain groups on dragging modern political correctness into the SCA and ramming it up everybody's nose. And, yes, if you state the opinion that you prefer to have the thrones occupied by a person of each sex because that's what makes the whole thing "work" for you - you're instantly labeled homophobic, evil, mean, and sadistic. So tired of that nonsense.

In a more general way, I'm utterly sick and tired of people demanding privileges by labeling them as "rights" and kicking and screaming till the get them. And I think THIS has become so firmly stitched into the Society as to be uncorrectable.

(I also think that anybody who deliberately names themselves the Group W Bench is suspect in their intentions and isn't really in much position to insist that their cause is a noble one.)

fork-->stick-->Done.

Date: 2011-10-24 11:28 pm (UTC)
ext_173469: Quoted text: "If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off." (lockstitch)
From: [identity profile] piroshki.livejournal.com
I don't understand any of it, but I wanted you to know I'm here and I'm not going anywhere.

Date: 2011-10-25 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fallconsmate.livejournal.com
i understand what's trying to be done per rights of individuals, and i absolutely see where you're going with your thoughts. were there more places of power for women in the SCA, i'd speak gently against you. but there arent. (and i dont SCA, so therefore my opinion is of little merit anyhow.)

but you know what? you're my dear friend and have been for a long time now. just because i see things from a different perspective, doesnt take away my love for you, dear one. i'm stayin here, and my pink hair is also. ;)

Date: 2011-10-27 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deafelis.livejournal.com
Though your words may be jumbled, it seems we all understand your thoughts. :)

I hadn't applied much thought to the matter, but I do see and understand your apprehension over our tendency to game the system. I'm not sure where I will rest my final opinion. Hmm...

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